Kwame Mbalia on Writing, Representation & the Magic of Storytelling

0:00 [Music] Hi storytellers and welcome back to the storyteller shelf podcast. It's Jackie again here with Teresa and we have another massively incredible guest here with us today. We havewami who is a New York Times best-selling author recipient of the credit Scott King Award and he's also the publisher of an imprint at Disney Hyperion called Freedom Fire dedicated to stories about the black experience by black creators. We are so honored to have him on today. So, let's just jump right into it and have him

0:45 tell us a little more about himself. >> I mean, my standard answer is that I feel like I've always been writing and to a certain extent that's true. Um, pretty much since I learned how to write, I have been writing. I felt like too many words inside of my skull. I would get in trouble in class. I was a great student. And this isn't me bragging or anything, but I didn't get in trouble for like causing a disturbance. I got in trouble because I would daydream and I would just make up stories in my head and go off on complete um side plots, full plots, romantic interest, multi-day adventures. And I would come back, you know, it I'd start the daydream on Monday and by Wednesday it

1:27 had branched off into, you know, uh, this is what my ancestors were doing that led to this point or my future descendants carried on the torch of this battle. Just fullon epic, you know, multigenerational daydream. That's what I would get in trouble for. And so it got to a point where the stories would be too big for my head and I just had to get them out. and they weren't always um full-fledged stories. And something I like you you'll hear this a lot. Something that I like telling to young writers or aspiring writers is that um sometimes you won't know that your story isn't a story until you start writing it and you'll start writing it down and

2:06 you'll realize so I don't have like much of a plot. I had an idea and a cool character and that does not a story make. And so I have many unfinished from throughout the years. My mother still mails me notebooks from our house that she's found like, "Hey, I found a maybe you could do something with this." And I'll look at it. I was like, "This is so fun." And I'll start tinkering with it. And I realized like, no, it wasn't meant to be a story. It was meant uh for me to just practice writing. And sometimes writing just to write is perfectly acceptable as well. Nobody needs to see everything that you write. Nobody wants to see everything that you write.

2:43 Something should stay hidden in desk drawers and Google documents. You are the first person I think other than Teresa and I that has mentioned that on air because Teresa and I both we have we have come together as one and said yeah we both have way too many Google docs just full of words and stories and not stories and we don't want to share them with anyone. They're not going to query anywhere. They're just kind of hanging out where they are forever frozen in that place or go back to a tinker with. Right. >> How did that writing journey look? You had these daydreams. You wrote some stuff down. When did you start thinking about going the professional route with

3:27 this? >> Well, let me think. I started pursuing being a published writer, a professional writer, a writer who earns money. Um, probably I was well into my like scientific career. Um, I've been writing just for fun, for passion. But, um, probably maybe 2014, 2013, 20 somewhere around that time. So, a little over 10 years ago, I was in my 30s. Um, I was in my 30s and I was like, "Let me investigate um how to get an agent, what this publishing process entails." You know, I I was and still am a big fan of short stories. So, I was

4:13 like, "Let me start writing more short stories, submitting them, getting rejections, figuring things out." Um, and I feel like I always say I I feel like I failed my way upwards. And I think that's what writing is. You know, writing is failing your way upwards, failing until you're successful, which is probably everything. You're bad until you're good or you're bad until someone, you know, pays you, even though you're still bad. Um, but um, for me, I investigated, you know, what does it take to get an agent? Well, first thing is you need a story. You need a completed manuscript. What? Why? Why? that wasn't part of the deal. Uh so yeah, I started thinking about

5:01 well what could turn into a full length book project. Started one, got, you know, to the magic 10,000word number and scrapped it because it was like I'm struggling. I don't see a future for this. Started another one. Um and that became the book that got me an agent. And this is like 20 2015 or so. 2015 2016. And I am um I wrote the floating library of Timbuktu. It's where is it? I have it in a binder somewhere around here. Um because I printed it out because it's my first completed book. It was terrible and wonderful at the same time. It was a West African steampunk um and it had all sorts of history and

5:47 fantasy and wonder inside of it. Um, but I don't know if it was ready to be a story read by others. However, it was enough of a premise. It was enough of a glimpse into the stories that I could tell that it landed me my first agent. Um, and from then on, it was the try fail cycle. Try, fail, try, fail, eventually succeed. Um and uh that's what led me to meet you know Danielle Clayton and Cake Literary and what would eventually turn into Tristan Strong. >> Yes. And Tristan Strong I I know for my family that is one of our favorites and when we think of Tristan Strong um that

6:34 was huge breakout success and still is. I mean it's very talked about. Can you share the story behind the writing it? How that idea came to you and how long it took it to come to life? >> Yeah, I mean Tristan Strong wouldn't be here if it wasn't for for Danielle Clayton who, you know, first approached me about like, "Hey, man, you know, you should really write this story about um our folklore as gods. write this new um literary cannon, if you will. And because that's really what all folklore is. Folklore becomes legend, but it starts as a story that someone decides

7:19 to tell, right? And so we decided to tell a story that brought characters like John Henry and a Nansi together, characters like Gumbab, um characters like uh the people who could fly, Bur Rabbit, all of them together into this world, this shared world, combining the African diaspora of storytelling and threading the story of a boy who's dealing with grief through it And um it was ambitious I think because um I tell people all the time I was terrified that something like this would not get published again to the magnitude that it

8:04 was being supported. Right? So you have Rick Reordan backing it on his new imprint. You have Disney backing it that the imprint is with. Um, and it's getting all of this marketing, all this publicity, all this press. You have, you know, um, Barnes & Noble wanting to move it up to before the holidays so that it could be a holiday, it could be supported throughout the major buying season. Um, and I meanwhile, I'm writing this and I'm like, I got to put this in, we got to put that in. This is a middle-grade book and we're over a 100,000 words with it. And I remember my fantastic editor, uh, Stephanie Lurri, telling me like, I wanted to cut I

8:49 wanted to cut and edit this, but I didn't know what to take out, you know? And I was like, well, thank you. It's mildly terrifying. I write books that are too long. They're way too long. Um, and so, yes, it was a breakout success and it was incredible. Fantastic. It was terrifying. Um, because this is my first book, debut novel. Um, and as I'm, you know, I'm writing all of these, I feel like I put a lot of personal grief, um, situations in there. I was dealing with grief at the time. My children were dealing with grief at the time. Tristan is dealing with grief. Um, all of the folk characters are dealing with grief. The gods are dealing with grief because

9:31 of all these terrible things that have happened throughout the book. And it was an interesting way to navigate that as you're moving through the same emotion yourself, putting your character and they're them taking a completely different path through it. So, writing Tristan was um well, writing every book is a novel, pun intended, experience, but writing Tristan Strong Punches a hole in the sky and the subsequent novels in the trilogy and the Gumbaby short story and the graphic novel adaptation was, I think, an incredible thrust into the world of storytelling and I think really defined the type of storyteller that I am. >> Yes. I think like we can all say we very

10:16 much appreciate the beautiful storytelling that you have and you have shared with the world. I think it's so amazing. Can't say stress that enough because it's so good. Um what but I want to kind of move into more of the writing process. Um what is your process like? I mean, every writer has their own process, their own way of doing it, whether they're a pacer, a plotter. Um, you know, if you have your cup of tea, if you have your coffee, what do you do when a new idea won't leave you alone? >> What is my process? Um, Mike Tyson has a a famous quote that's, you know, everybody has a plan until

11:01 they get punched in the face. And I have slightly adapted that to say that everyone has a process until they become a parent and then process goes out the window and it becomes I need to write when I have the opportunity. Uh I am recording this podcast right now because I have strategically aligned myself with my uh rising kindergarteners aotted hour of tablet time, right? And so we listen, we are on a strict time budget right now. Um, I just turned in a draft for my uh latest middlegrade trilogy. I just turned in a a chapter for a co-written uh companion novel that I'm writing. Um, and so like my

11:50 contracted writing is done and yet I still feel like there's so many stories that are like scrambling to get out of me. And so you mentioned like, you know, when a new idea won't leave me alone, I have what's called story stubs. Uh I should really trademark that or patent it or something. Uh I call them story stubs. And basically what it is is you have a comp um let's use uh Tristan, you know, um I thinkWami Alexander called it like a middle middle grade American Gods. Um, so you have a comp, you have a two or three sentence like pitch or summary. You know, a boy who's dealing with grief, um, accidentally punches his way

12:35 into a world where West African gods and African-American folk heroes exist and they exist in conflict and he has to find a way to bridge that conflict in order to find his way back home. Right? So you have a a summary and then if then if you still have like something to build with after that like you still have creative material to work with I start writing chapter one right and that gives me chapter one gives me the it's a bellweather as to whether or not I have the complete makings of a stories right now if I need to put it on the back burner and let it percolate for a little bit. Um, so I start off with a, you know, this that complete, you know, um,

13:23 pitch, summary, chapter one, and then maybe a a synopsis, like a I call it a skinny synopsis. A lot of writers hate writing synopsis. I love them. I love them so much because I am a nervous bundle of anxiety and if I don't know what's happening, like, you know, I'm not a plotter. I am not a plotter. I don't, you know, um, sketch out subplots or, um, you know, character growth arcs or anything like that, but I need to know that I know what I'm doing because otherwise I am just going to lay on the floor in the dark because that is how I deal with anxious anxiety, right? So for me it I treat every idea that comes to

14:10 me as if it could be the idea and that means a story. a story sub takes like five minutes, right? Um, and then I've gotten it out. I've gotten out of my head and it's there ready to be expanded upon. It's a scaffold that I can build upon later in the future, a year from now, a month from now, or tomorrow if I need to. Um, but I like I like the idea of a story stuff because it doesn't restrict you from um playing around with that shiny new idea even if you're on deadline for something else. That number fluctuates on any given day depending on who has my tablet and they're using it for what. MacBook, iPad, pen and paper. Uh my mother wrote uh who is also a

14:52 writer would write her um snippets on sticky notes and then Saturday morning she would get up early and collate them. And I you know I've adopted that habit as well. I have half filled notebooks. I've got Pilot Precise V5s, 0.5 pen, ballpoint pens, you know, on the standby ready to write whatever I need to because you never know when an idea is going to hit you. I've got Google Docs on my phone, Scriber on my phone, all of it synced up in the cloud. There's no there is no process. It is a beautifully chaotic nebula of ideas that sometimes coales into some form of chapter related thingy. and that iswami's writing schedule.

15:38 >> You need to patent the writing subs and it should just be calledwami's writing subs and that's it. No one else can take it. That's yours. That's amazing. Um I think we want to pivot though into I'm fascinated by your degree in science and how you use that in your writing. Um, so you have a background in science. Has your training as a pharmaceutical meteorologist influenced your storytelling in any way? >> Has my training influenced my storytelling? Yes, but probably not in the way that you're thinking. Um, I would love to tell a I I would love to tell a sciencebacked story or a story revolving

16:23 around science. a story that integrates biology or um chemistry or any any other natural science. I think it would be fascinating. Um I just haven't gotten around to doing it. However, science is a um it is a field of evidence, right? You need evidence to back up because what is crucial about science is that your results are repeatable. meaning someone else using the same materials that you use can recreate what you did and so they need you need to have that backing that sound backing and for me that comes from research so I think my science career prepared me for the

17:08 research process of storytelling every story that I've written fantastical or not has um a healthy amount of history of world history embedded in it whether it's you know um Tristan Strong trilogy and the uh mid-Atlantic slave trade, whether it's the last gate of the emperor duology and the history of Ethiopia, um whether it's uh Jack Freeman trilogy and um stories of the great migration or huru or um just the general black American lived experience. Um there's a there's a lot of research that goes into it. Um, some of it doesn't go into it,

17:53 but it's still useful for me. Um, I live on uh Jtore. One of the greatest things JTO ever did was allowed you to read a 100 free articles a month. I have yet to hit a 100. That is my goal. It is my goal to to fully consume my allotted 100 free articles on Jtore because I I live on there. I'm constantly looking for research articles, um, studies, um, just peer-reviewed evidence, uh, or scholarly literature on these things or topics that may or may not make it into the book. I am such a nerd. I am a Wikipedia, YouTube, Google nerd. Not in the fact that I use those for research, but it's that trap, that rabbit hole

18:38 where you find one thing and then it links to something else and all of a sudden you have six, you know, new things that you can discover and research like that. that spiderweb, that branching, fractling spiderweb of information to a to a tiny little nerd like me is is, you know, I would I would fully be trapped by a witch in the forest if instead of can of candy they like dropped Wikipedia articles. I like, "Oh, num num num num. What is this? The history of sword fighting. Oh, that's delicious. Oh, wow. metal working in in Africa in a sub in a subsahara continent. Nom nom nom. This is delicious. Why am I in prison? What's happening here? Can I at least have a

19:23 light for this new information that I'm reading? Um, so it's research for me is is pivotal. And that comes from just my my science background, wanting to know what I'm talking about and wanting the readers to believe I'm an expert even though I'm clearly not. But I I want to appear to be knowledgeable so that they then become interested in the subject matter and then dive off. One of my favorite things is when I'm reading something and I'm like um I think it happened to I think it was the fifth season by Nora K. Jimson. Um I was reading that book and she just used a um a term in there. I said, "Oh, that's a pretty cool term." And in like months

20:10 after I had finished the book, I was reading on one of my Wikipedia binges something and I realized that she had incorporated an actual scientific term into her fantasy and used it like correctly the way that it was intended just with a magical, you know, context. And I was like, that's so brilliant. The links, neurons, dendrites are firing in my head. My brain has no wrinkles. That's the that's what I love about reading. And so I want to provide that to readers and that's where the science background comes into play. >> I like the idea of the witch in the forest. I too would be trapped. Jackie will back me up on this because I am also a history buff and fact nerd. I'll

20:50 go down the rabbit hole and I'll share that same kind of thing with my husband. I'll start off on one thing that I'm researching. I don't know if you do this as well, but then you go off on another. And I can definitely empathize with you. I would I I too would be um trapped based on the facts thing. >> I would I would totally I would totally be captured. It's it's terrible. You know, just they would just look at my my browser history like, "Oh, he just likes to learn about everything. So, let's just dangle a little just a little bit of information here and there. Did you know? I did not know. Please tell me more about this as you lure me into this

21:26 gloomy forest." >> I think knowledge is our weakness. We'll promise not to share that too much just in case your enemies are listening. Uh, I have to brag though. Between us, I got to 85 articles on Jtore in one month and I was super proud, but it wasn't all for me. I was helping other people research, so I can only claim half of the success there. >> I'm gonna I'm gonna Well, July is almost over. So, my goal for August will be to I'm going to reach a hundred scholarly articles on Jade Store. I'm going to read them. I'll be able to summarize them. I'm going to I'm going to have proof. I'm going to take notes. It's like I'm going to be back in class.

22:06 >> I'm looking forward to it. You have to tell us when you hit 100. And I have to say, um, so Teresa's husband is an engineer and then I have a science background as well. So, I feel like we're in really good company. And sometimes we also get the same question that we ask, which is, does science help you write? Does being exposed to somebody who studies or practices science help you write fiction? And everybody has a different yes. And I loved your yes because research is so important. It's what makes worlds come alive. And we talk a lot about middle-rade readers in particular. They are so smart. They pick up everything. Kids know when the universe you're

22:46 creating is built on solid bones and when you've created your own plot hole and made, you know, illogical basis for what you're talking about. So, I feel like you really need the research in there to buff up what you're doing. >> I want to do for for Kidlet what uh Alistair Reynolds does for adults. Alistair is a uh he has a PhD in astronomy and he you know uh was an astrophysicist who is now a full-time writer and I just finished like his novella I guess this is a nolla perafrost um yesterday and I'm like ah this is entirely so believable none of it is going to happen but it's it could it could and I want to do that for you know

23:32 kids to make them you know oh this is absolutely I I'm learning so What? I need to go learn more voluntarily. >> Learn more voluntarily. We love that phrase. [Laughter] All right, let me let me take a step for a second. So, we've spoken about how you write and how you got into writing and some successes that you've had writing, which have been many. So, looking back from where you're standing now, what was it that surprised you the most when you got into this world of official publishing? What surprised you the most about getting in publishing? I'll give you I'll give you two answers. One is I mean they're both kind of related. One is when you've had some success, it it

24:17 unfortunately or fortunately it opens so many more doors more than just merit alone, right? Um, which you know, hey, I reap I reap the benefit of when I when I say my second answer, but also it's like, you know, I understand that there are millions of people out there who are who want to become writers, and I wish that it wasn't the case that um who you know or who you are would will help you more in the long run. And again, that's not every case, but I mean, it's happened to me, it's happened to others. And so that's always um you know, the person standing on the back of the chariot, if I'm Caesar, whispering like you know, this too shall pass. You know,

25:02 like it's you're only relevant for as long as you're relevant. Um however, I will say to bring some levity back is how many free books I get. Like again, I'm a reader before I'm a writer. And so, uh, used, you know, used to be they changed a little bit, you know, with, um, co and quarantine and switching from, you know, physical mail to like, you know, uh, NetGalley, uh, or PDFs or whatever. But it used to be like I would go I would be like, "Oh, I'm going to go to a conference." And they would send me like the books of everyone who was going to be on the panel. And, you know, this is my first, you know, debut, it's my debut novel, so I don't have any other

25:39 experience other than this. I'm like, they're just sending me they're just sending me books. Like I and I'm the biggest like I'm a nerd. Like I read I would read everything. When I was younger, I just, you know, you want to go to a party, I want to read. Let me read. Total side note, this new thing of like book parties where you all hang out for a little bit and then you read your book. Wonderful. Blown my mind as a child. You I can go somewhere and just read and still be social like this. Introvert nerd guy would have been in heaven. But um yeah, they just the number of books I get um whether it's um some of them like hey can you blurb this some of them like hey can you read this

26:18 some of them you from friends some of them just out of the blue can we give you a copy we'd love to send you this um it's it's amazing and I yes I totally reap that benefit of having some success in the industry yes send me books because I will read them I have a household full of readers we will read them together books I will read those with my kindergarten ner graphic novels. I read those with my 10-year-old. Uh my oldest, I'll we will read YA novels together. So, you know, all of the free books, wonderful. I love it. Absolutely. Reveling in my privilege there. >> We love free books, too. And we Theresa and I are fortunate as well that we get

26:58 them for different reasons. And by the way, we have to plug in for listeners. If you are that person who's new and who's nervous about asking people for blurbs for your book, please shelf the timid nervousness for a second and just reach out because a lot of writers and authors and people working in publishing, we love to read and usually we're very happy to give you that blurb. We'll take it back to the dark note for a second because I have to agree with what you said because this is actually part of the reason that this is part of the reason that Teresa and I started this podcast was we understand the back scenes of publishing. It is a business

27:37 at the end of the day. And sometimes we like to say it can feel a little like politics that you have to know someone who knows someone or have XYZ that makes you marketable. And that does play a huge factor into whether or not you get published as an author or an illustrator. But that doesn't mean that there are no opportunities at all. So we started this so that there's equity and knowledge and opportunities for people like our listeners to meet people and to hear these stories of what can happen and the different ways that you can make it happen. So, I'm glad that you said that because again, that just really resonates with what we do and why we do

28:17 what we're doing now. Um, and we don't want that to be a gatekept secret, right? The reality is the reality and everybody deserves to know it because once you know, you have the power to start making steps so that you can say, "Okay, let's master your mind around this and let's get to where I want to be." It's the empowerment behind it. So, another pillar um of why Teresa and I started the Storyteller shelf is the diversity and representation in books hugely important to us and that's from our personal backgrounds. Um Teresa's family is part Mexican, my family is Puerto Rican and we know that finding books with characters like you and your family, oh my gosh, so hard even today

29:00 that we've made a lot of progress. So, we wanted to ask you as someone who's existed in this world and who is an advocate for black stories, tell us a little bit more from your perspective. >> Um, how are we doing in terms of representation? It's it is miles better than when I started as a writer and which in turn is miles better than where I was a as a reader growing up. Um but the finish line is still like halfway across the globe, right? You can have progress. Um I used to cite this study from from Lean

29:45 Low Books. They would do their um diversity and publication I want to say survey every so often. I remember and this is this was maybe three or four years ago. I need to double check to see if they've come up with a more recent survey. But at the time I remember reading and it was like the number of um books by um people of color, you know, black, indigenous and people of color. Yeah. It had doubled within, you know, the past three or four years or so. And then they then they listed the percentage and it was still like single singledigit percentage of the total published books, right? So there was progress. you doubled but it was still nowhere near

30:27 you know the journey hadn't been completed yet right um and so there's still a ways to go um but like I said there is it has become a lot better right but that doesn't mean the job is finished just from you know I have my own imprint with Disney Freedom Fire the imprint that Rick Reordan started Rick Reordan presents um like all of these different opportunities and Let's face it, publishing is a copycat industry. So, if something has success, they want to jump on it, right? And it's revoly. It is stupendous and is it is mindblowing. um every time a marginalized author's book becomes successful and it's like

31:14 all of a sudden we're rediscovering that um everybody else has purchasing power as well and will support you know um so it's we've come a long way and we still have a long way to go right um but I feel I do feel good that my kids get to grow up at a time And um there is an actual uh measurable increase in diversity on the bookshelves. Not that I'm not the bookshelves that I create, but the ones that they go out and and curate or explore for themselves. So for me, you know, uh I feel like I had an opposite experience from from a lot of different,

31:59 you know, u marginalized authors where they'll say that and and this is their lived experience. And it's absolutely true that they grew up and they didn't see themselves, right? I was the complete opposite. And that is because my parents were intentional about the bookshelves in our house. They stacked the four bookshelves outside of our our in the common room in our family room with book with Ketta Scott King, you know, author winners picture books. They would get by self-published and indie published uh indie press books. Um they would go to um African and African-American fairs and the vendors and would buy books from them. So we had books on our shelves and I thought

32:37 that's how the world was truly until I got out into the world for myself and started exploring and realizing that no that wasn't the case. And so I feel like my kids bookshelves match the bookshelves that I grew up with for totally different reasons. And that reason is that things have gotten better, but it's still a fight. It is still a fight. We're only in like round 0.1. We still have to go the full 12 rounds before we can consider ourselves winner. >> That was a really beautiful answer. Thank you. We know it's not an easy question and we like to tell you our answer is always the same again every time, which is we're on the staircase and we're a couple stairs in, but we're

33:18 definitely not at the top yet. But we take the journey as it comes and we see so many diverse creators and initiatives. So we're here to support that. Um >> there's I want to just say there is a I'm going to this is a totally new analogy bringing it on you at the you uh this is my first time using it and I really hope I pronounce the city right. Um I want to say it is called Chong. Oh please help me pronounce it right. Uh, it is Chunking and southwestern China. And if I'm not mistaken, it's the city like with all of the stairs where um like you'll have roads

34:03 that are you think you're at the bottom and you're not. You're like you're still super super high up. I love just watching the Tik Tok videos of the the guys. They'll be like, "All right, today we're going to go, you know, to work or whatever." And they're just going upstairs and it's up and up and they're just going up and up and up and then it's like we're on the ground level of this building but now we got to go up and now we're on the ground level of this building and it's just and it's like five minutes of them climbing stairs and they've gone so far, right? And then you realize, oh no, you look around the corner and there are more stairs to climb. That's how I feel like,

34:37 you know, increasing diversity in publishing is is like we've come so far. We've worked so hard. My legs are so tired and there's still more to go, but we cannot like stop. Uh uh uh we we can't like forget what we've accomplished cuz we have accomplished a lot. Never forget that we've accomplished a lot. We just still have more to go. >> And for people listening in, it's Lean Lo's diversity baseline survey is the name of that. And the last one they published, I think, might have been in 2023. Definitely check it out. So, so interesting. It's full of need to know knowledge and it talks about not just creators, but it also talks about people working in publishing. So, please get

35:15 those stats. And let's talk now kind of going off of this thread. We want to talk about a hero looks like you because you are working with Disney and Marvel which you continue to work with Disney today and people on the other end. H we can imagine ourselves in that position. But what does it feel like working with such a big company? Did you feel nervous at all? Did you feel intimidated? Was it an experience like you expected? How did it go? >> I mean, working with Marvel was was a blast. It was fun. And I think it's all attributed I had um two great editors, Wendy and John. Um, and couple that with the fact that I'm writing a picture book and so not necessarily like a comic

36:01 series or graphic novel that will, you know, enter or alter the cannon of anything. So like a lot of the keyboard warriors just, you know, put their pitchforks down and just glared at me rather than causing a fra. But um, which is that how you pronounce it? R F R A C A S. Is the S silent because I heard it pronounced for the first time and I've been calling a frackus for the longest time. Is it not frackus? Is it a fraka? Like have I been completely like I'm a I'm the I'm the reader pronunciation. I'd rethink so often then I say them out loud and it's like you know intensive purposes, right? Like everything is just wrong. Is it I'm going to let you all correct.

36:45 >> Is it Frankus? I don't know. I'm guessing >> there's a third way. I bet Teresa's about to tell us a fourth. We have to Google this. This is important knowledge. Let's see, guys. I have no idea. Actually, it's coming up with four different pronunciations. Okay. Well, creator's choice. >> Okay. Users choice for um when our our listeners are watching this, let us know in the comments about how to pronounce this word. Um but is it a French word? Is it a French word? >> I don't know. Uh, it is. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> From uh fraas or fraaser or no uh I

37:30 guess it's French. It's French, but it was originally Italian. Uh fraaser to make an uproar. These are the dovetales that I go off on where I'm like I heard something pronounced for the first time and that is completely the antithesis of what I have been saying in my head and I need to make sure that I'm right because this is very very very important to me because you know readingwami doesn't like to be wrong whatever. Um regardless working working with with Marvel um on this picture book was probably the best you know experience that anyone could have had. It's not like I had a co a quick comic book deadline turnover. Um, and it was my first picture book, so

38:11 John and Wendy were wonderful. And you know, like I said, I write long, and that's not what you do for picture books. And so there's an economy of words that you have to strike a balance between and and telling the story. Um, and so it was it was fun. Um, funnily enough, which one did I get finished with first? I want to say that I had been working with um Star Wars as well at the same time. So I sort of had an experience with working with someone else's, you know, licensed IP, what you can and what you can't do. And so, you know, there wasn't

38:57 like the typical, oh, you know, um, frustration like, oh, I can't do this. They said I can't do this. Um, cuz I think for me, I worked very generically and then refined as the edits happened, as revisions happened. Meaning, I would make the story very, you know, um, a soldier did this, right? Um, and then we would come back and like, okay, well, we have these characters, we could put them into the book. And I be like, "All right, so instead of a soldier, it's now serpent did this, right?" And so instead of Marvel telling me what I couldn't do, they told me what I was allowed to do. And we were further able to refine and narrow down and become more specific in

39:37 our storytelling. So I think it worked out really well. >> While we're on the subject, would you tell us a little bit more about the Star Wars novel? And the Star Wars novel comes out in October, right? >> It comes out, yes, I have two books releasing in October. So, I have the book two in the Jax Freeman series, and then two weeks later, I have The Last Order, which is the Star Wars young adult novel. Um, that focuses on Finn and Jana, uh, and their early years as Stormtroopers. It's sort of a dual timeline, but it's um, listen, I I love Star Wars. One of my like earliest memories I can think of is in seeing the poster on the on the wall and

40:23 Blockbuster video, those Alkaid posters and just being like, "What is that?" And then, you know, catching the marathons on like TNT or TBS over the over the holidays, uh, renting them from Blockbuster Video, you know, seeing when the prequel trilogy came out. um all the way up until you know the moment I saw Finn lurch up from the sand in the episode 7 you know preview trailer and I'm like we have a black stormtrooper instantly I knew like I was like what is this what's happening and then the trailer for episode 9 there's another black stormtrooper what is what's happening I need to know more right um but all of this I like to say that this

41:09 novel came about because I tweeted I manifested a tweet. I tweeted um I think it was when episode 9 was coming out and I think maybe Esquire or one of the magazines did a big cover shoot uh photo shoot with them and there was Finn and Jana and I was like I'd love to do a YA novel with Finn and Jana exploring their backgrounds of Stormtroopers blah blah blah blah blah. So, I tweeted that out before Episode 9 had come out. Um, and so when, you know, we talked with Star Wars, the people at Star Wars or Lucasfilm, uh, and and Disney about doing a novel. Um, I immediately pulled up that tweet

41:54 and they were like, "Yes, immediately yes, let's do it." I was like, "Yes, this is why you tweet things at midnight." Um, and that's that's what it became. And I had again so much fun playing with this idea of um stormtroopers not as villains but stormtroopers as humans who were doing what they're told um and becoming slowly becoming aware of what happens um of consequences and their impact and just also having fun like the dynamic the camaraderie um teaming up with a rival and then realizing that you have more in common. Um standing up for what you believe in.

42:41 Like I had a I had a blast. I had a blast writing it and I hope people have a blast reading it as well. >> Everyone who comes on the show, we go through the metaphorical exercise of if you had a t-shirt, what would the phrase be? And I think your t-shirt phrase might be this is why you tweet at midnight. >> There's so many we could do. you know that we could do um the witch would get me if she dangled news article you know there's a lot we could put a lot on the chart >> um can you tell us about Freedom Fire your imprint in collaboration with Disney books and what is its mission and why did you want to launch it >> so um it's funny I just put out um a

43:24 story on Instagram because my iPhone prompted up uh a memory uh it was like four years ago cuz around this time four years ago So myself, uh, Jason Reynolds, George and Johnson, Jerry Craft, and Toan Yabuchi, we flew up to New York to do a piece for our upcoming anthology, Black Boy Joy. Um, and so we filmed that. Um, and Freedom Fire for a lot of different reasons feels like almost a spiritual successor to what we intended to happen with Black Boy Joy. um which is this idea of storytelling that celebrates the black diaspora uh with joy as its core um tenant, its

44:11 core pillar, right? Um exploring ideas. That doesn't mean like you have to write a happy story, but your story should center um you know moving towards resilience and joy. even if you don't reach it yet, you're striving forward and you're making an effort to get there. Right? Because above all, we want to show young people how they can navigate themselves from any situation towards a place where they are comfortable with themselves, happy with themselves, content in their surroundings, and striving for something even better, right? Um and so that's what Freedom Fire is and and it's part of its mission. Um we've had this is we're in year two. Um which is exciting.

44:55 Uh but you know it's it's never about the current year. It's about what's happening in the future. And the talks that we've been having, the the books that we have been acquiring, the artists, the authors that we have been working with, it's just like, you know, the future looks so promising, right? And so for me it's like I've always been um and I think a lot of readers are like this, right? When we find out that you like to read too, well we want to share books with you. We want to talk what books do you like? Do you like this book? This is a book that I like. And I like shouting about books, right? And so that's why I have my newsletter, Black

45:32 by Popular Demand. That's what I would tweet about um or, you know, put a a story about on my social feeds is books that I've read, books that I'm currently reading. And now that freedom freedom fire to and for all intents and purposes um is just me being able to shout about books that I feel like you all should be reading because there's so many incredible authors and stories out there throughout the world. Um and I just want to highlight some from the African diaspora. Um and let you all revel in them, experience them, um learn from them, celebrate with them. Um, something I said about Black Boy Joy that I feel like is also pertinent with Freedom Fire

46:15 is that these things that we're sharing, these stories that we're sharing, this is like someone else's birthday party, right? Like, um, I go through this all the time with my kindergartenner that it's not about you. This birthday is not about you. But you know what? You're going to go it. Maybe it's a it's a splash party. You're going to have fun. They're going to feed you pizza. You're going to get a cupcake. You're going to get a goodie bag to go home with. You're going to have a great time. And it was all about someone else, not you. And you still had fun. And that's what reading these books and sharing these books, whether it's Freedom Fry or Black Boy

46:51 Joy or just someone that doesn't share the same lived experience with you is. It is you celebrating them and enjoying the story that they're telling. >> That's awesome. I really appreciate the importance of storytelling and I and the fact that this is something that it's year two but it's growing and the fact that you know you just want to share good stories and that's that's the most important thing I think that's that's fantastic. Um, for our audience of aspiring authors and illustrators, how can they keep an eye out for opportunities to work with Freedom Fire or get involved? >> Um, I am the easiest person to get in contact with. My DMs are never closed.

47:38 um for good or for bad, but um I for every nine pieces of harassment I get one request for mentorship or conversation and that makes it all worth it. Um or my website. I am you listen I am perpetually online which is probably not a great thing and I shouldn't be admitting that but it is so easy to get in contact with me and through there uh getting in contact with our incredible Freedom Fire team. um our editors and and um all of our uh everyone behind the scenes who who make these uh books a reality. Um reach out to me. That is the that is the that's how probably the last three meetings have happened. I've se actually I've seen someone and I've been

48:24 like listen we need to talk, right? So um don't be afraid if I slide into your DMs because I will do it. I am also very respectful when I do so. I come uh laden with cat pictures or hobgoblin pictures depending on you know which version of the cats you get. Um but I come uh with bearing gifts um and salutations. I have a calendar of dad jokes that I can drop in there just to let you know that I am a friendly guy. And then I will ask you about like what are your aspirations about writing and have you ever thought about writing middle grade? But it is so easy to get in contact with me. I check my website. I check my submissions form all the time. So, don't be afraid to

49:07 reach out. I'm a very, very friendly guy unless I'm reading a book and then don't talk to me. >> And you kind of gave us the perfect ending note. So, thank you so much for being here with us today. Thanks for being so honest and so easy to talk to. >> Awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate you inviting me on. >> If you enjoyed this episode, give us a like, subscribe to our channel, and share this with a friend because we know that other people out there could use this, too. And one last thing, if you like freebies, definitely join us in our email newsletter. Pop your email in. It's for free. We don't spam you, but we occasionally send things like career

49:42 opportunities, awards and contests, and handy dandy things like pitch guides and query guides that you might find very useful. So otherwise, we will let you go today and we'll see you again next time. This episode of the Storyteller Chef podcast is brought to you by Harney and Suns fine te's. A perfect companion to every story. Whether you're reading, writing, or just enjoying a quiet moment to yourself, Harian Suns offers a beautiful selection of teas to elevate this experience. From classic blends to unique finds, every cup is crafted with care, just like the stories we love to

50:28 share. Shoph harney.com/disount/stoteller and storyteller is in all cap. Now, let's get back to the